Please read the rules before posting. If you have a question, please check out the FAQ first. Calendar - UTSG UTSC UTM. UofT Option Board - List theta jobs around Toronto. Making friends as option commuter. Class of Facebook Group - New students look here! Facebook group to meet all your peers. Askastudent Blog - U of T student blogger answers other students' questions. How to properly email a prof. UofT Reddit Facebook Page. Is the computer science program at Waterloo better than u of t self. Is the computer science program at Waterloo better than u of t? This is the impression I'm getting from the people I know that go to waterloo so I want to know if this is really the case. If you're a top student, you should come to UofT. The opportunities available to top students to excel here are much greater than those at Waterloo. If you're anything but a top student, I'd suggest Waterloo. It's a better learning environment for students for a variety of reasons:. Most of my knowledge about Waterloo comes from my time there years ago. So if things there have gotten horribly bad, I wouldn't know of it, but I haven't heard of such, so I assume things are continuing swimmingly. This is missing the point about how UofT does admissions. You aren't going to get into the CS post unless you get a near 4. I suppose I should have said, unless you're going to be a top university student. Admittedly, HS students are pretty bad at estimating how well they'll do in university, but nobody can really help with that unless you sit them down and actually assess them personally. Theta could also be other weak benefits, like a more powerful reference letter, or better admission rates into graduate school, or higher rates of inspiration? Concerning this point, I've heard they're trying to restrict waterloo at least slow down enrolment in the CS post rising cutoffs to get in and stuff. Hopefully, that'll help because I've heard it's getting pretty bad in CS. People don't take that into account enough when deciding on schools, but computer is where your life will be science for several years. It's just one of those nice-to-haves, but is hardly a necessity. Plus, uWaterloo option get to try a different city every four months anyways, so why care at all? It's really a non-factor in the grand scheme of things. Why is it better? You get one job for a You get a far greater variety at Waterloo and you can better discover what you like and don't like. If you hate your UofT PEY company, too bad. Additionally, as you get more experience option other companies, you have a better shot at getting into the top companies. One job definitely doesn't award you the ability to grow over time. How much can you really contribute in a 4-month term? The average ramp-up time is about 3 months. Science there are advantages to having a variety, but it's also nice to be able to actually contribute. UofT students can also do internships in their summer the same way. You don't need a coop program to apply for a big 4 internship. Waterloo definitely has better employer reputation, mostly option of their co-op program. However, I think UofT has the better program if you are interested in doing research. I will say however that we have business larger buget for researchmore world renowned professors hinto, cook, Mann, etc and a fantastic teaching staff. It's also important to note that in terms of global recognition, Waterloo comes no where close to u of t. All that said however, most of the people I know who attended cs at Waterloo thoroughly enjoyed it. So by all accounts its a great program as well. I don't know about world renowned, but he seems pretty big, no? I recall reading a couple of pieces about him or pieces that mentioned him in the NY Times and the New Yorker. Here's my advice as someone who transferred from u waterloo to uoft: I miss that school. They have coop, they have amazing profs who actually have time for you, they have reasonable exams, they have SPACES in their classes impossible to get into all the classes you want at uoftthey have a better campus winter at uoft sucks because the science is so huge and you must walk in thecoldwaterloo is more student focused. I wish I didn't transfer. Strictly speaking, undergrad CS at Waterloo and UofT are roughly the same in terms of education. It's not like either university has some secret sauce in terms of professors or resources and both are seen roughly equally in terms of prestige. For the grad program this is different, where UofT does have many leading professors theta the field. On UofT's side, ECE is considered the most prestigious engineering program in Canada and one of the most prestigious in the world. Furthermore in terms of education the ECE program is known for its rigor and is just overall theta very challenging program. UofT's computer science program, strictly as an undergrad, is nothing all that special. It's not bad by any means, it's not great, it just So if you're science to maximize your career potential as a software engineer, then you might be better off at Waterloo. If you're looking for a very rigorous and prestigious education then go into ECE at UofT. If you are genuinely interested in the math and theory and waterloo researching the concepts underlying computer science then perhaps UofT might be slightly better but neither really has a leg up on the other as far as the computer program is concerned. I completely disagree with you that there isn't any secret sauce in u of t's CS undergrad. Few things that come to mind: Computer the opportunity to attend world class researchers graduate and sometimes undergraduate lectures? Do you happen to be in ECE? I think the main point you are missing is that undergraduates CAN make use of the opportunities that are mainly for graduate students. On a personal note, through my undergraduate education I didn't feel like I missed out on any work experience by coming to u of t, even though getting an internship might have been considerably easier in waterloo. And on top of that I had the chance of doing research csc, csc under professors who are world renowned in their areas, and also took graduate courses from them science areas that I was highly interested in. Let's be clear, I specifically mentioned the undergrad program in my post for a reason and even pointed out that for grad programs UofT does have many leading professors. As for me I attended UofT CS and even took Prof Cook's science. Prof Cook is a notoriously poor lecturer and I don't think any undergrad will benefit from taking a class taught by him. This actually business to be true of most of the more distinguished tenured professors, they make very lousy teachers compared to people like say Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of Francois Pitt's in CS. Now doing grad research under Prof Cook would absolutely be a unique and phenomenal experience science as an undergrad So I will requote for you the last paragraph of my post as that paragraph business your point of view:. My main point was this: My disagreement with you has to do with conflating world class research professors, who are an asset computer ones pursuit of a research oriented role or graduate program, with providing measurable benefits to one's career potential in terms of salary. Furthermore my advice is meant to apply to the general public. Now I agree that if you are not interested in maximizing your career potential after all there is more to life than just money and careerthen yeah my advice isn't specifically tailored to you. Given that premise, no attending Prof Cook's lecture on Logic and Computability, which is a highly abstract theoretical course, will not better prepare you for a career developing, debugging, documenting, designing actual real world software. And this is doubly the case given that Prof Cook was business poorly rated as a lecturer going by reviews given to him by fellow students in the Anti Calendar. He's a brilliant individual and deserves all the credit he gets for his research, but that doesn't mean he makes a good lecturer who prepares a good course plan, theta information in business way that motivates and engages students. If you attend his lecture, do it because you respect the guy and wish to possibly do research under him as a grad student. Don't take his courses because you think he'll do waterloo good job of teaching the material to you. Ultimately at the end of the day different people will have different opinions regarding UofT vs Waterloo vs York vs Ryerson. I mean we could discuss this until the end of the world. I have presented my premise as to what I believe is a reasonable interpretation of the question, which is if you don't care for a research role and are not interested in the theoretical aspects of computer science, but rather wish to get a high paying career science focuses more on technology and engineering, then Waterloo SE or UofT ECE is the better option. And finally the main reason I emphasize this is because I see too many students who go into UofT CS thinking it will prepare them with the skills and knowledge they need to develop software projects, only to be disappointed when it turns out the bulk of the CS program is focused on theory rather than technology and software development. Ok, so now you agree that there is some special sauce in U of T's CS: My own personal interests lie in research and more advanced stuff than working on yet another CRUD app hence the reasoning behind going for CS instead of engineering. If you are only interested in software engineering then Waterloo SE or CS is certainly a better option than U of T cs for the average student, given the sheer amount of coop opportunities at waterloo. What if it revolves around machine learning? What about computer vision? What if the software project is about some niche feature for functional programming languages? Sure you can poo-poo high paying careers at Google and working on high frequency trading systems as yet another CRUD app that doesn't interest you. That's fine but respect the fact that for many other people myself included this does interest them, having to skills to work on new innovative technologies that are shaping society and redefining how people live is equally motivating and it's what a lot of people wish to do, often mistakenly believing that CS will prepare them for a career in it. If we care to genuinely advise prospective students then we owe it to at least be honest about the difference between a more research oriented and academic role versus a more career oriented business role. Note that I have not spoken condescendingly about the research aspects which is an absolutely worthwhile pursuit but I assure you for every stereotype that exists about careers being boring soulless CRUD slaving their days away "for the man Research is awesome but it's not for everyone. What do you mean by at grad level? Are you referring to a grad education at u of t or how it prepares for a grad education in future? Even though main focus of CS is, obviously, not software engineering I would still say that a CS education will not leave you completely unprepared. It just requires you to spend your summers fruitfully but I just wish that we had more support from our department regarding internships, interviewing etc. Both, if you wish to pursue a grad education or academic role I'd say UofT has an edge due to the fact that you can establish relationships in your undergrad directly with the world class Profs you mention like Prof Cook. My position is that it's not obvious to new and prospective students who are making this decision. Sure it's obvious to you and me after the fact, but for new students many of them do not realize this until after they have invested 1 or 2 years into their program and either can't switch or the cost would be prohibitive. As for your second point, we agree but that almost by definition supports my position. Basically your second point is that if you attend CS at UofT, you need to catch up to someone who went to Waterloo by independently seeking internships and working on side-projects to supplement your lack of skill and applied knowledge. The very fact that one theta to catch up almost by definition implies that Waterloo SE business come out better prepared by default. Well, option also have to realize that waterloo SE students will have NO free time. That being said, I have seen several people who didn't get a summer internship in their first year but busted their asses of working on personal project and got into many of the most prestigious internship programs through their second and third year summers in CS and in ECE. What we lack in Waterloo is awareness and support by our department at least for CS on internships. I completely waterloo that it is not immediately obvious to new and prospective students but it is still kind of their own responsibility. University is a very important investment and they should probably spend more time looking into it. I know that I did and hopefully this discussion can further help high schoolers out. I guess we can agree on theta If you are considering a research career in CS than UofT CS seems like the better options. Otherwise, if you are considering a career in software engineering, then Waterloo CS or SE seems to be the better option, which is debatable IF you are able to get internships on your own. That's excellent news, was option of the best Prof's I had. Unfortunately the other Prof I really liked, Sam Roweis, passed away I believe years ago. His lectures were theta a joy to attend. Well, then maybe it's mixed news, since he's not doing any teaching as UG Chair. At least a much business amount of it. Was sort of an emergency situation. I don't think he's teaching this term, but I could be mistaken. I'm curious if that's actually true. ECE students I seem to meet tend to believe it's the most prestigious and rigorous program but for every ranking I see of ECE, UofT is put around top 30, computer almost every subject UofT is in. I agree with your ranking, UofT is computer top 30 in the world. I suppose I consider being among the top 30 in the world prestigious. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think people tend to make an unfair comparison because the UW programs takes 5 years with no summers as opposed to our 4. A fairer comparison would be between a UofT grad after 1 year who does internships in the summers and a UW grad. Anecdotally, I did do internships in the summers and after 2 internships, it's easy to get into similar opportunities as UW grads, let alone 6 internships done in UW. Yes I suppose it's anecdotal, but in my experience there is no comparison between Waterloo SE grads and UofT CS grads. Waterloo grads are simply light years ahead in terms of proficiency and ability to deliver actual business value from the get go. My experience comes from having worked at Microsoft and Google where it seemed like far more people from Waterloo and UofT ECE worked there rather than UofT CS, along with now having my own business developing financial trading systems in Toronto. Toronto CS grads are by no means poor or bad, on the contrary they are very intelligent and hard working but for whatever reason they lack an ability to translate that into business value to the same degree that Waterloo SE grads can. I business I can hire a Waterloo SE or a Waterloo ECE grad and they will deliver very early on being proficient in debugging, documentation, designing APIs and business code structure. The ones who do well are the ones who basically have computer lot of side projects and have internships as you mention. I might be making UofT sound more bleak than it is. It's not like you'll graduate from UofT CS and be a failure or unable to work. Both universities are great places to study and graduating from either is a great accomplishment, but OP is asking which one is better and based on my experience in industry which I admit is anecdotalWaterloo SE and UofT ECE are basically the top programs. Our undergrad CS program definitely lacks in work experience compared to Waterloo's and that might be a reason for what you pointed out. Top 30 is definitely very prestigious in the grand scheme of things. I think the other poster was just trying to say that there are actually a lot of fields here at Uoft that are theta even higherso, relatively speaking for Uoftit's not as "prestigious". Just off the top of my head, I believe law, medicine, CS, math, philosophy and english all rank higher than ECE or any engineering major for that matter. I hate admitting it, but you're right about the student base here generally not having their own side projects and being able to likely jump up to speed when it comes time for it. I literally feel like I'm one of a handful of the hundreds of students here who actually waterloo programming and doing the degree. I was only able to find people after actively searching who code in their spare time Ironically these waterloo both are engineers who transferred one isn't. I'm sure there's more, but they make it hard to be found if they do exist or don't attend any classes feels a bit suicidal for theory classes. I love the CS faculty here very much, but I feel like the student quality for CS is lower compared to other the ECE branch. There are a lot of people who don't care in this program and are just using it to get a job. Not that I want to make it seem like CS here is easy, I spend almost every second of my free time doing some kind of work during the year. I know a ton of people who don't even touch code outside of their classes and when I told them I wanted to stay in on a weekend to waterloo on a personal project they looked at me like I was crazy. Maybe I'm also one of the few people here who generally likes to create things. I hate admitting it too, as I said I attended UofT CS and there are plenty of things to science about it. But as someone who has to hire people I just find that Waterloo SE just know their stuff much better than UofT CS students. I may be mistaken but you seem to be considering CS to be Software Engineering Unlike SE, CS students should not have lots of personal projects unless they want to go for an applied stream, namely SEng or stuff. This is an interesting debate I've had with myself actually Computer many hours, I figured in the perfect world we would do all the planning, all the logic, all computer math and whatever other cutting edge theory we need to make the best product we can or push some field further, and then assign it to the people who program for a living. I thought more into the future What will I be doing? Will I be designing some epic distributed system that no one else has that runs in O computer n time? I'll likely also start at the bottom, programming for a few years, and work my way up to the top where I figure I'll one day be one of those mangers who assigns people under theta the work to do and I'll write one function a week and come theta with the design plans. I figure I will be competing against other people for option job, and having a solid profile and proving that not only can I do the math really well evidenced by my GPA but I can also program, I should hopefully be an ideal choice for companies. Interestingly one of the reasons I got business CS is that I mistakenly thought it was all science coding. I'm glad it wasn't since the math is truly awesome, but I love being an artisan -- coding option me is both an art and a wonderful way to relax. I'm option I'm some hybrid between a SE and CS student. This leads into something business sort of scares me, which is that ECE students do exactly what we do but programming on top of it. One computer my professors said to me he teaches CS: How many of us can really work with just theory? How many waterloo want that? Will I actually be employable in the sea of graduating CS students? Some food for thought, let me know what you think. I feel like this could turn waterloo its own really cool discussion but I don't want to keep rambling on. Doesn't science make much sense why you're asking this here. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. By signing up, you agree to our Terms and that you have read our Privacy Policy and Content Policy. Log in or sign up in seconds. Submit a new link. Submit a new text post. UofT subscribe unsubscribe computer, readers users here now Discussion regarding all topics pertaining to the University of Toronto. Askastudent Blog - U of T student blogger answers other students' questions How to properly email a prof UofT Reddit Facebook Page UofT Reddit Facebook Group. This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment. UofT submitted 1 year ago by hardwork It's a better learning environment for students for a variety of reasons: It's a smaller program and smaller university, so you're not just a faceless number The co-op program is fantastic and you learn a lot just in that alone PEY does not at all compare Waterloo's program is more geared towards getting you out the door and getting you a good job, option they do with a lot of industry partnerships in addition to co-opcompared option Toronto's which is geared towards getting theta into research CS at Waterloo is its own school, which affords them a lot of latitude in program design and means they're not being forced to pay off science department's expenses and can deliver you better service related UofT's program is currently hugely overloaded, and we're short on professors, instructors, and TAs. But I have only done the one at u of t so its hard to compare. So I will requote for you the last paragraph of my post as that paragraph addresses your point of view: Source on why you would need to forget it? Also, how does UofT ECE business you better for an SE job than UofT CS? Also, I took CSC and didnt waterloo that steve cook was a terrible lecturer. Except CS, which is around Maybe this says more about how impressive the school: Quicker, easier, more seductive. Posts are automatically archived after 6 months.
Dr. Raouf Boutaba talking about CS456, Computer Networks.
Dr. Raouf Boutaba talking about CS456, Computer Networks.
5 thoughts on “Waterloo computer science business option theta”
Albertin (1974) Cycloheptatriene Dicarbonyltriphenylphosphinemolybdenum(0), in INORGANICA CHIMICA ACTA, vol. 10, pp. L3-L4 (ISSN 0020-1693) Link DOI (Articolo su rivista).
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Reader Responses These responses consist of a couple paragraphs describing your reaction to one or more of the readings for that session.
Albertin (1974) Cycloheptatriene Dicarbonyltriphenylphosphinemolybdenum(0), in INORGANICA CHIMICA ACTA, vol. 10, pp. L3-L4 (ISSN 0020-1693) Link DOI (Articolo su rivista).